> The bottom line is that we need some sort of entity if we want enter into
an agreement with a fiscal agent or sponsor. Otherwise, there is no "we” to
enter into said agreement.

I've said this before and I'll keep saying it, this is not true that you
need a legal entity to have your project fiscally sponsored by a fiscal
sponsor. I know of many projects (not library related, generally
'charitable') which become fiscally sponsored without having any legal
incorporation or other legal entity. The project is legally a project of
the fiscal sponsor.

It is very common. It is a common way for "charitable" projects to start
out, without legally incorporating at all, perhaps to legally incorporate
and separate from the fiscal sponsor at a later date.

If the people we are talking to for fiscal sponsorship are fine with this,
it is a common thing.

Jonathan

On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 6:04 PM, Cary Gordon <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> This is what the FCIG has been working on.
>
> The bottom line is that we need some sort of entity if we want enter into
> an agreement with a fiscal agent or sponsor. Otherwise, there is no "we” to
> enter into said agreement.
>
> Cary
>
> > On Jul 24, 2017, at 1:03 PM, EDWIN VINCENT SPERR <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > Again, it is great that things have worked out so well for so long. And
> there is nothing about the process of formalization that requires (or is
> even intended to bring about) the sidelining of the folks who have worked
> so hard to make the Conferences, the Journal and everything else such a
> success.
> >
> >
> > However, there are over 3300 folks currently subscribed to the list (it
> is by far the largest list that CLIR hosts), and I'm not sure about
> Conference attendance, but the FCIG report tells us that "Recent total
> budgets for the annual Code4Lib conference have exceeded $250,000" [
> https://wiki.code4lib.org/FCIG_Report#Description_of_Current_Practice <
> https://wiki.code4lib.org/FCIG_Report#Description_of_Current_Practice>].
> Frankly, if there has *ever* been a time when we could somehow ascertain
> the consensus of the entire community about "what it wants" in an informal
> way, I would argue that it passed a while ago.
> >
> >
> > There is no need for governance to imply a top-down centralization
> (though formally electing Roy Tennant as God-Emperor and being done with it
> is certainly an option open to us). Instead, it can be structured in many
> ways as a formalization of existing practice. There is no absolutely no
> reason that our existing Trustees can't be elected as officers. And when
> they want to set their burden down for a bit, the Community can elect new
> ones. Making this process explicit may be more trouble in some ways, but
> it's also considerably more democratic.
> >
> >
> > Not least, this is a discussion that will likely be forced upon us if we
> try to proceed with partnering with a fiscal sponsor for future meetings.
> Instead of just randomly copying some bylaws from somewhere, let's start
> thinking about how to intentionally adopt a form of governance that
> preserves the things that we currently like.
> >
> >
> > Edwin Sperr
> >
> > Clinical Information Librarian
> >
> > AU / UGA Medical Partnership
> > [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> | [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Code for Libraries <[log in to unmask] <mailto:
> [log in to unmask]>> on behalf of Eric Hellman <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> > Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 12:08:31 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Governance for Code4Lib (was: What's so bad
> about bylaws?)
> >
> > I've been pondering about this a fair amount.
> >
> > I don't think Code4Lib is an "amorphous entity with no systematic way of
> arriving at a decision or definable point of contact". Rather, it is a
> decentralized community with long-established norms and consensus-based
> procedures for discerning the will of the community.
> >
> > The community has been able to accomplish a great deal using volunteers
> and, for the lack of a better word, trustees. The trustees have been
> largely self-appointed or have responded to community requests. These
> trustees manage assets and capabilities for the benefit of the community.
> The asset that has put the largest burden on the part of the trustee has
> been the annual conference and the corresponding fiscal liabilities.
> Because of the burden of this trusteeship, it has been handed off from
> trustee to trustee.
> >
> > I think it would help if we reframed the discussion away from
> "formalizing governance of Code4Lib" to "improving the fiscal continuity of
> a trustee for one (or more) of the Code4Lib community assets/liabilities",
> which I think the fiscal continuity group has advanced considerably.
> >
> > There has been some good work done in developing and documenting the
> norms and procedures in our community. For example:
> >
> > https://code4lib.org/about <https://code4lib.org/about>
> > About | code4lib<https://code4lib.org/about <https://code4lib.org/about
> >>
> > code4lib.org <http://code4lib.org/>
> > code4lib isn't entirely about code or libraries. It is a
> volunteer-driven collective of hackers, designers, architects, curators,
> catalogers, artists and instigators ...
> >
> > About | code4lib<https://code4lib.org/about <https://code4lib.org/about
> >>
> > code4lib.org <http://code4lib.org/>
> > code4lib isn't entirely about code or libraries. It is a
> volunteer-driven collective of hackers, designers, architects, curators,
> catalogers, artists and instigators ...
> >
> >
> > https://wiki.code4lib.org/How_to_hack_code4lib <
> https://wiki.code4lib.org/How_to_hack_code4lib> <
> https://wiki.code4lib.org/How_to_hack_code4lib <https://wiki.code4lib.org/
> How_to_hack_code4lib>>
> > How to hack code4lib - Code4Lib<https://wiki.code4lib.org/How_to_hack_
> code4lib <https://wiki.code4lib.org/How_to_hack_code4lib>>
> > wiki.code4lib.org <http://wiki.code4lib.org/>
> > Hop into the #code4lib IRC channel and listen for a while. The
> conference back channel on IRC is the most invaluable tool available to
> help you quickly get the feel ...
> >
> > How to hack code4lib - Code4Lib<https://wiki.code4lib.org/How_to_hack_
> code4lib <https://wiki.code4lib.org/How_to_hack_code4lib>>
> > wiki.code4lib.org <http://wiki.code4lib.org/>
> > Hop into the #code4lib IRC channel and listen for a while. The
> conference back channel on IRC is the most invaluable tool available to
> help you quickly get the feel ...
> >
> >
> > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m-9VtL7L_fUxl2hTF_
> YZSdFRfucaLtmHvLSzom6XPVM/edit?pli=1#heading=h.99orczg96qj5 <
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m-9VtL7L_fUxl2hTF_
> YZSdFRfucaLtmHvLSzom6XPVM/edit?pli=1#heading=h.99orczg96qj5> <
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m-9VtL7L_fUxl2hTF_
> YZSdFRfucaLtmHvLSzom6XPVM/edit?pli=1#heading=h.99orczg96qj5 <
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m-9VtL7L_fUxl2hTF_
> YZSdFRfucaLtmHvLSzom6XPVM/edit?pli=1#heading=h.99orczg96qj5>>
> > [https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/QNBNsGIckkoGTAfhTZn3mAJGHTD-
> 1AGkFTMViVGoNiYuMAADkx94tfyT-JrQgOI0y2-ilg=w1200-h630-p <https://lh6.
> googleusercontent.com/QNBNsGIckkoGTAfhTZn3mAJGHTD-
> 1AGkFTMViVGoNiYuMAADkx94tfyT-JrQgOI0y2-ilg=w1200-h630-p>]<h
> ttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1m-9VtL7L_fUxl2hTF_
> YZSdFRfucaLtmHvLSzom6XPVM/edit?pli=1#heading=h.99orczg96qj5 <
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m-9VtL7L_fUxl2hTF_
> YZSdFRfucaLtmHvLSzom6XPVM/edit?pli=1#heading=h.99orczg96qj5>>
> >
> > Code4Lib indoctrination<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m-
> 9VtL7L_fUxl2hTF_YZSdFRfucaLtmHvLSzom6XPVM/edit?pli=1#heading=h.
> 99orczg96qj5 <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m-9VtL7L_fUxl2hTF_
> YZSdFRfucaLtmHvLSzom6XPVM/edit?pli=1#heading=h.99orczg96qj5>>
> > docs.google.com <http://docs.google.com/>
> > How do we make code4lib a more inclusive place for newcomers? or, how do
> we quickly indoctrinate newbies to our values and ways of doing things? If
> any, what made you feel like an “outsider” at the Code4Lib community (IRC,
> Listserv, etc)? Inside jokes in IRC or listserv suggestions? Maybe we s...
> >
> > [https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/QNBNsGIckkoGTAfhTZn3mAJGHTD-
> 1AGkFTMViVGoNiYuMAADkx94tfyT-JrQgOI0y2-ilg=w1200-h630-p <https://lh6.
> googleusercontent.com/QNBNsGIckkoGTAfhTZn3mAJGHTD-
> 1AGkFTMViVGoNiYuMAADkx94tfyT-JrQgOI0y2-ilg=w1200-h630-p>]<h
> ttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1m-9VtL7L_fUxl2hTF_
> YZSdFRfucaLtmHvLSzom6XPVM/edit?pli=1#heading=h.99orczg96qj5 <
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m-9VtL7L_fUxl2hTF_
> YZSdFRfucaLtmHvLSzom6XPVM/edit?pli=1#heading=h.99orczg96qj5>>
> >
> > Code4Lib indoctrination<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m-
> 9VtL7L_fUxl2hTF_YZSdFRfucaLtmHvLSzom6XPVM/edit?pli=1#heading=h.
> 99orczg96qj5 <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m-9VtL7L_fUxl2hTF_
> YZSdFRfucaLtmHvLSzom6XPVM/edit?pli=1#heading=h.99orczg96qj5>>
> > docs.google.com <http://docs.google.com/>
> > How do we make code4lib a more inclusive place for newcomers? or, how do
> we quickly indoctrinate newbies to our values and ways of doing things? If
> any, what made you feel like an “outsider” at the Code4Lib community (IRC,
> Listserv, etc)? Inside jokes in IRC or listserv suggestions? Maybe we s...
> >
> >
> > https://github.com/code4lib/antiharassment-policy/blob/
> master/code_of_conduct.md <https://github.com/code4lib/
> antiharassment-policy/blob/master/code_of_conduct.md><htt
> ps://github.com/code4lib/antiharassment-policy/blob/
> master/code_of_conduct.md <https://github.com/code4lib/
> antiharassment-policy/blob/master/code_of_conduct.md>>
> > [https://avatars2.githubusercontent.com/u/1158447?v=3&s=400 <
> https://avatars2.githubusercontent.com/u/1158447?v=3&s=400>]<https://
> github.com/code4lib/antiharassment-policy/blob/master/code_of_conduct.md <
> https://github.com/code4lib/antiharassment-policy/blob/
> master/code_of_conduct.md>>
> >
> > antiharassment-policy/code_of_conduct.md at master ...<
> https://github.com/code4lib/antiharassment-policy/blob/master/code_of_
> conduct.md <https://github.com/code4lib/antiharassment-policy/blob/
> master/code_of_conduct.md>>
> > github.com <http://github.com/>
> > antiharassment-policy - Code4lib anti-harassment policy drafting space
> >
> > [https://avatars2.githubusercontent.com/u/1158447?v=3&s=400 <
> https://avatars2.githubusercontent.com/u/1158447?v=3&s=400>]<https://
> github.com/code4lib/antiharassment-policy/blob/master/code_of_conduct.md <
> https://github.com/code4lib/antiharassment-policy/blob/
> master/code_of_conduct.md>>
> >
> > antiharassment-policy/code_of_conduct.md at master ...<
> https://github.com/code4lib/antiharassment-policy/blob/master/code_of_
> conduct.md <https://github.com/code4lib/antiharassment-policy/blob/
> master/code_of_conduct.md>>
> > github.com <http://github.com/>
> > antiharassment-policy - Code4lib anti-harassment policy drafting space
> >
> >
> >
> > It may be useful to further document Code4lib's consensus-based
> procedures and policies for the benefit of legal entities that need to work
> with us, but a formal governance structure for the community (as opposed to
> that of an asset trustee) is something that I don't think the community
> needs or wants.
> >
> > Also, I think the notion that we're indebted to "dumb luck" forgets that
> "luck" is created by a lot of hard work.
> >
> > Eric
> >
> >
> >> On Jul 24, 2017, at 11:01 AM, EDWIN VINCENT SPERR <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> It is true that the Community has held 12 annual conferences without
> formalization. And yes, it is likely *possible* to continue with the
> current model of every conference being essentially a separate entity, and
> support from the larger community being on an ad-hoc basis. But the reason
> we are having this discussion is that this is not a particularly good
> option -- it depends not only on good will, but (as Coral has noted) dumb
> luck as well. It also means more stress and effort on the part of each
> year's organizers than necessary.
> >>
> >> However, if we *do* form a relationship with another entity (or
> self-incorporate), some person or persons will sign an agreement that binds
> us, however you define "us", to a course of action that will likely span
> several conferences. This is indeed a significantly different type of
> decision than has come before, and it requires a different way of doing
> business. Everybody has had a bad experience or two with bureaucracy, but
> the current approach of trying to maintain Code4Lib as an amorphous entity
> with no systematic way of arriving at a decision or definable point of
> contact has real and tangible drawbacks.
> >>
> >> So, in the spirit of the current way of doing things, I propose the
> formation of an ad-hoc, self-nominated committee (perhaps the last of its
> kind) to investigate a formal governance structure for Code4Lib and then
> assist the Community with its implementation.
> >>
> >> If you're interested in joining me, please contact me off-list:
> [log in to unmask]
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Date:    Fri, 21 Jul 2017 16:35:13 -0400
> >>> From:    Adam Constabaris <[log in to unmask]>
> >>> Subject: Re: What's so bad about bylaws?
> >>
> >>> It's an interesting question, but code4lib -- whatever exactly that is
> --
> >>> has managed to make all sorts of decisions, about where to hold
> >>> conferences, keynote speakers, etc. for over a decade without
> formalizing.
> >>
> >>> I am unclear on the exact details, but there is some carryover of
> >>> conference funds from year to year and if I had to guess -- and this
> is a
> >>> guess -- it relies on the good will of the previous year's fiscal
> sponsor(s)
> >>> transferring the funds to the upcoming year's fiscal sponsor(s).
> However
> >>> exactly that process works, it's happened multiple times at the
> direction
> >>> of the community; each time, though, different parties are involved.
> >>
> >>> The F*C*IG is attempting to address (among other things) the
> tenuousness of
> >>> that arrangement, and they've identified a number of proposals that
> appear
> >>> to yield enough formal organization to ensure continuity.   The
> >>> decision doesn't strike me as more momentous or different in kind from
> the ones code4lib has
> >>> made in the past, and shouldn't require any new mechanisms.
> >>
> >> Ed Sperr
> >> Clinical Information Librarian
> >> AU/UGA Medical Partnership
> >> Athens, GA
> >> [log in to unmask] | [log in to unmask]
>